the first time. and we hit it off immediately. >> charlie: liked each other. >> we became friend. we were friends. but we competed. and charlie, that was about so many years ago, i don't ebb remember now. but we have played against each other, we're still friends and he's one of best friends i have. and he's a guy, we don't spend a lot of time together. but if i felt le i needed something that he was the guy i needed to talk to, i'd go see him. >> charlie: you agree that the rivalry th took place is part of the magic that everybody says made modern golf. you, television, jack nicholas. >> well, i don't know. i hope so. i hope that it helped. i think out television, think abouike, i think about jack, i think about hogan.